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Brad asks:

Hello Joe

Question for publication or future feature article

Titration with Tumeric

Does tumeric indicator when mixed with alcohol in 1part to 5 ratio as described on the "Collaborative Website" have a shelf life?

I have had mixed results and trouble obtaining a consistant and confident interpretation result, and feel that fresh indicatior reacts differently from pre mixed even though its carefully sealed and stored.

Would like to hear from others on how they perform titrations using tumeric and any feedback on similar experiences with the quantities, measurements or process they use to get a result for processing WVO.

Please publish this as a general question to others and I will montior the site for any forthcoming responses and answers.

Thanking You

BW

Follow this thread at Biofueslforum
9:46 PM 19/12/2007

Tom:

Tom lives in Brisbane

G'day Joe,

I collect approx. 100litres /week from my various sources and dump it through a kitchen sieve, into a 200 litre drum which is mounted on its side.

(I) Light a wood brazier under it [heaps of firewood]measure and mix methanox

1 to 1.5 hours oil is "hot bath' temperature so decant from a bung in the original 2 inch hole in drum [ remember drum is on its side]

Hot oil bucketed into a calibrated, 240 litre wheelie bin. Only 5/6 lifts with a 20 litre bucket.

Add methanox and mix with a power drill mounted with large plaster mixer [5 minutes]

dip out sample in a vegimite jar and put to one side

check sample in about 15 minutes to check that separation is occurring YAY !!! another batch has been born !!!

Let batch settle for at least 24 hours and pump into wash tank [ 150 litre chemical mixing tank from rural suppliers]

wash at least three times during week

gravity feed into drying tank [200 litre black poly drum with crude solar heat pump on top to disperse evaporated water from biodiesel]

The longer it stays in drying tank the happier I am.

That's how I do it but I am not satisfied with the washing bit as the ph is variable and the soap remants are sometimes more than I am comfortable with. [50/50 - biodiesel/water and shake like shit test]

cheers

Tom B

19:46 PM 20/06/2006

Dave:

Sorry I couldn't get an email out to you before I left, but that day was a scrambling mess to finally leave! But I did finally leave last tuesday.

I went to Wilson's Prom and absolutely loved it. Was planning on taking a few days up the coast from there but the weather was absolute S*&T so I just drove on through to Sydney! So here I sit, in the NSW state library, giving you an update.

I'm planning on staying here until sunday - by then I hope to have made a few more batches - and then I'm thinking I'll go fruit picking for a couple of weeks.

Not sure where that will be yet. From there I'll go over to the coast and start hitting up some beaches! Yeah. Not sure which beaches yet, but should have that firmed up before I leave on sunday.

Take care,

Dave

2:15 PM 24/05/06

Heeeeey Joe! Where you going with that gun in your hand?

hahah always think of that song when I write you an email.

Anyways mate, just wanted to let you know that I'm in byron now! Wooooooo byron!

Would you happen to know anyone in the area that makes bio?

Would love to hook up with them and brew a few batches.

have some oil and meth leftover still.

Anyways mate, take care!

Dave

12:44 PM 29/06/06

I'm still here!

hahah, even back in Sydney! Byron bay was absolutely wonderful, and thanks to the generosity (which I have seen so often on this trip) from matt, I made my back down the coast with a brief stopover in Myall's national park to do some camping.

But now my trip is coming to an end....I leave to go back to Canada in a couple of weeks and now just have to find a buyer for my car and head down to Melbourne to fly out.

So yes, I'm still alive, and doing splendidly,

Dave

4:36 PM 24/07/06

Joe:

I've got all of the parts for my reactor, except some ball valves. I can get them for about 8 bucks each for 1/2" or about $12 for 3/4".

There is a dump collection this weekend here at Caloundra at the moment, so I've gone around and found a few washing machines. So, with the owners permission I've pilferred the motor and pumps for both. Good score. Not sure if I'll need them but cant hurt.

I've had a large batch made up and I'm now running B100. I'm going out to Dalby this weekend so that'll be a good test on a long haul and on cold starting.

The meeting we had last week is nearly out of my system. It was very intense. It was an amazing challenge to cater to a very wide and intelligent crowd. Its given me some clues for our next one anyway. All of the notes for the meeting are now on the web and can be found here. Thanks guys you really made the day for me.

I've decided on a variation of the appleseed style processor. I have a 8500 watt heater from a small water tank. I will insert that into an inverted 44 gallon drum. I'll cut a hole into the top to insert the feedstock. Its mainly solid tallow so I'll need a good wide opening. I already have a pump and previosly discussed (2000lt/h from ebay). Everything else will be standard. I'll make a hinged flap out of the opening so I close the lid. Also I was considering making a square or circular base around the drum and spraying some insulating foam into it. There is a spray that expands and sets solid. That will help the heating.

My set up will look similar to this one. Only I wont have a hot water heater as my reactor.

Mail more later.

Catch ya. Joe

7:59 AM 16/06/06

Run for just under a week on the earlier quoted blend and what I can tell you is that there is very little if any improvement or worsening of performance. I wasn't able to accurately work out consumption so that aspect of the test is void, but the car definately idled more smoothly and did smell different. Although I'd debate it smelling like a fish and chips shop. It did however smell like burnt vegetable oil.

I have made another 60 litres over a few small (maily 20 litre) batches. Am still a while away from a reactor of sorts but I know what I what to do. I've run out of my second 20 ltr drum of Methanol. I'll probably get a 200 ltr next time round. Save of fuek running up to Nambour and its considerable cheaper any way. A little over a dollar a ltr.

Not particulary happy with my set up. Very manual and a bit back breaking transfering liquids around. This alone will be my driving force behind making a reactor.

As mentioned in an earlier posting, I'm now collecting in thoery 100 ltrs a week. There is the occassional extension but I'm now collecting considerable more than I can react. Also another reason to make the reactor.

11:09 PM 24/01/2006

Had an awesome day yesterday. Collected nearly 140 litres of solid and liquid vege oil. Went back to an old customer and dug out 40 litres from a tank, using a fry pan as a shovel. Its a dirty job but someone's gotta do it. Bought another 20 litre drum of methanol from BP Alliance for $39. On the way back through Maleny I dropped in and got another 30 litres from another customer. And the biggest coup of all, I collected 80 litres from a small restaurent at the 19th hole. I dropped in for a quick beer before getting home and saw 4 full drums. I asked what they were doing and Matt said nothing and we had a moment of understanding and a small nod and a smile and I said "Sooo can I take em" and he said yep. And while i was on a roll I said "....and can I take anymore that you've ever got" and he said yep. So thats another 20 a week. He also gave me a few other numbers in Montville and said he would be happy to collect them on the way through to work. Wooohooooo. So I have in theory exceeded my threshhold to be self sufficient. Lugging it all home was a bit of a laugh. I had three empty 25 litre plastic containers, 9 or ten other steel drums, a frying pan, and a bloody petrol powered water blaster. That 140 litres is two weeks quota right there. So I have another weeks worth in settling tanks and another week to be done as well as the 140 litres. So I'll have a months worth very shortly.

I got the nudge from my missus the other night to start using the biodiesel and "...stop bloody talking about it...". :-) I have set my self the task of putting the filter in this weekend and topping up the remaining 20 litres of dieslel with biodiesel. So I'm guessing it'll be roughly a B75 blend. That will be more than enough to work out power output changes and fuel consumption. I'll keep you posted.

11:57 PM 05/01/06

Ok I have got the emails to me working now and an IRC chat working. I'm almost ready to tell the world. God what will they think.Coding has been slow but I knew what I was in for. Most of the major links are working now. I'm just trawling around looking for broken links. Content is slow to come as well. I have a few prepared that I'll borrow back from biofuelsforum.

A mate was quick to tell me that with database backend and php front, it will be very easy to automate a few pages, blogs, faq's etc. That'll allow you dear reader to start blogging your self. I'll try that next week.

I've hooked up another shop with Waste Vege Oil. They change 20 Litres twice a week. I think the titration will be very good. I picked up a batch yesterday and it was liquid, not solid as they had said. It just gets better.

5:24 AM 14/01/2006

Registered brisbanebiodiesel.com domain name through godaddy.com. It was amazingly simple. Site is being hosted by site admin of Biofuelsforum.com Robert Fyvie. Thanks Rob. Grabbed some source code that I'll use for the frame work of BBD. I want it to look and feel like the biofuelsforum website. I think continuity is very important even between websites. Go the webring. Slowly plodding through the links sorting them and building content. Got a fairly good idea of what I want to achieve. We'll see how I go.

1:03 PM 28/12/2005

Mark:

Mark (not his real name) lives on Bribie Island (not his real location). Read his blog.

Hi all. I've been using biodiesel for about 6 years now. There are a group of six of us who take it in turns to collect WVO, Methanol and Potassium Hydroxide (KOH). It took us about 2 years to get to the point where we got enough WVO from local shops that we were free from using petro-diesel. Now we have a growing surplus and are actually having troubles using it all. We've started giving it away to friends and relatives who have converted. We have made and distributed tanks for WVO collection at local shopping centres. We have 4 of these. Each is a 500 Litre tank and we empty them as needed or right before we are due to do another batch. We allocate a day a month and do 2000 litres at a time. We get methanol from a local distributor in 1000 litres batches. This will last a few months. We use pumps to mix the contents of the brew and remove glycerine and pump the BD into washing and settling tanks. We wash 3 times to remove soaps and unconverted Glycerides. We have experimented with open air and bubble drying. I have covered over a combined total of 100 000klms in a 1985 Toyota Landcruiser and a 1992 Nissam Patrol. I still use a filter which I replace at 10 000klms. Niether engine has ever had a BD based fuel problem. Thank you for reading this.

8:57 PM 09/01/06

Chris:

hey joe..
yes there used to be a great forum a few years ago but it all dissapeared when they said they were going to tax it ....hahah i run a fj 60 land cruiser, ive done about 70 000 km on un washed bd.... my method is simple; some people get to complicated....ive been through all that and talked to the armcahir chemists ect.... my oil is waste cotton seed oil from a local takeaway food shop....its called formula 40 it all cotton seed ....i dont use tallow or animal fat at all....i pay them $2 for a 20lt drum.... i get about 200 lt per month.... ok my reactor is a 200 lt drum with a foot square hole cut in the top,ive peened the bottom to a slite cone and welded a elbow and ball valve to drain the glycerine.... its on legs and has a 80 lt hws heating element in the side to warm the oil. i make 160 lt at a time heat it up to about 50 c then add the methanol and caustic at a rate of 20% meth and 5 grams per litere caustic.i use a 20 lt metal tin and a air drill and stirrir to mix.i dont titrate as the oil is pretty much the same and that seems to work for me.... to react it i uste a polly pipe tee with holes in it and hook it to my compressor put a lid on the drum and bubble it violently for about 15 min....lots of fumes so dont do it in a backyard shed....i have 2 large sheds and plenty of vent.. i then leave it for about 2 hrs then d\rain the gly off while its still liquid....next few days i use a small turbine pump and a foot valve to pump it out from the top through a 5 micron filter sock u get from a pool shop into drums.. let it settle for as long as u can as gravity drags out any stuff like glycerine to the bottom.... i dont wash as its to time consuming..just change your fuel filter every service at about 7000km for 15 dollars. carry a spare just in case..i drain my primary filter under the car every time i fill the tank ....the unwashed will clog your fuel filter eventuarily is about the only drw back.... all hoses and fittings are pvc and clear plastic tube.... get from fryer to fuel tank by joshua tickell....its a good hand book..
ok cheers chris

10:15 PM 09/01/06

Peda:

9:34 PM 7/03/2006

Peda lives in Brisbane and has a late model Nissan Patrol. He's bought a water heater from a second hand shop and is in the process of making his Appleseed processor. Lets see what he's been up to.

Hi Joe, here is my processor so far. I used a Yamaha motorcycle shipping palet and container frame for the support frame of the processor. Worked out really strong and I fitted caster wheels on it so I can wheel it around easily. Just need to work out the settling and wash tank etc which will also be mounted on the framework so it will be a completely self contained unit. Regards Peter

11:09 AM 27/01/2006

Dillyman:

Hi Joe

Well as I said I would so, I went for it. I proceeded steadily being careful, checking out but nor delaying. Oil titrated out at 2 gms so away I went, using base of 7 gms + tit. Thermostat not properly calibrated, eventually sorted and did the deed. I was surprised how slow the Methoxide introduction was, took 25 mins to get it in the processor. Any how, away I went, instant startup of a reaction (color indications) making sure I processed for 2 hours.I was rather surprised at the top end of the sight tube how clear and a very light yellow color the solution was. Anyhow, I completed the process. I shut down and drained the residue from the pipes, pump and riser, just over 500mls, so opened the ball valve and collected a little more. Enough for just over 1/4 of a 1250ml for 2 soft drink bottles, one was for a normal settling process, the other for a pre wash sample (5%) to measure the 5 % more accurately there was a little more 12ml in the pre wash bottle. Tidied up and went inside (now dark)

In the morning. The two bottles, amazing to say the least. The standard process had a definitive layer of dark Glycerin ( about 20mm) The pre wash sample was nearly all glycerin with a 20mm layer of sharp clear Bio layer at the top. quite remarkable. Terry Syd said that the pre wash would bring out 75% of the glycerin and his suggestion to leave overnight was adhered to, in fact didn't touch it until about 2pm the next day (Had to go get another 80 Litres from my drum. That's 7- 44;s now - must get using some -only 2 empty drums left.) Anyhow drained the Glycerin, dark nicely fluid (good koh effect) and a carboy full just over the 20 litres then Bio started. Put out in the sun with open top to vent. Pump transferred the bio to the wash tank. Then! "The big moment" the quality test. 150 mls bio + 150mls of water, shook for 10 seconds and went to other side of garden for a few minutes to "She who must be obeyed". On my return, lovely yellow bio and a very cloudy water layer, happens pretty quickly doesn't it - clear and precise separation. Phew! what a relief. I decided to do the fast wash method I read up on the J to J 20 litres water stir to homogenous and go for 5 mins. Settle for 1 hour. So just wait and see, Tongue in cheek because the sewing machine motor played up to drive the mixer so had to use Hand Drill - the only close drill was my Bosch which is a powerful beast even on slow the low gear, so the mix was pretty fast.and strong in the agitation department.. Waited the hour, then started to drain, very cloudy white - ish liquid in the 20 litre carboy, changed carboy and got another 20 litres of similar, but with a yellow tinge. I pondered and inspected the wash tank, the orange juice mixture had changed color and had some transparency in it, pulled out nearly a full 1 litre jug and looked at it sitting on top of a 44. consistent color. I was not happy as it was not what I expected. I tested the first wash water PH and it was 10.6 Whilst I was checking this powerful mix I did not look at the other carboy. When I got back to the second carboy it had split in the middle and the top half was changing into a lighter orange color. I sat wondering what the hell was happening . The 30 litres or so of white densely clouded water had a slight yellow tinge to it but the second carboy upper layer was getting more and more yellow, so the process appeared to be still in process. Left things for a while with a cuppa sitting on milk crate thinking what the heck has happened. It appears that the mixing I had done had most certainly been far too powerful and the separating had not yet completed. It appears that comments on the forum about strong agitation does not cause emulsion is quite correct but incomplete process is the cause. I think otherwise I would have had a hell of a lot of soup. I later read a contribtion in some of my print outs that the stirring should be just enough to raise a hump in the surface of the wash. My stirring would have made bread. The quantity indicator was about right with somewhere under 10 litre of lost yield from the 100 Litre batch would probably be what I would expect, although who knows when the settling is finished. I have taken photos of the samples will let you have then asap for your comments. Having to keep going round to my daughters has sort of slowed my progress and made me anxious to get done when I have the choice so am not surprised I over did the stirring, pretty stupid though, did not really save any time. Have tipped it all back into the was tank, found another variable speed drill and just gave it a few minutes of steady re-stirring. Awaiting the morrow for better settling. This method means after 3 washes in a day it is then ready for drying after overnight settling. My haste has meant only one wash in the day. Oh Well !!!! The suggestions about the titration was most helpfull. The process was much easier not looking for precise results, it was simple and cool. Thanks for that. There is no way I was really going ahead without some accuracy Sorry about the length of this email but, after my the first process attempt; after all that reading and thought etc Boy! was I relieved after the quality test. Will post you the pics ASAP

Rgds

Derek (Dillyman)

11:50 PM 14/04/2006

Hi Folks,

Well the time is drawing near to Zero hour, Just a few things to do and lock together. I am going ahead with my appleseed system a follow on from peter. I have decided as the economics is along term advantage I have changed one or two things. I treated myself to a decent recalibrating PH meter. I very much like the 5% water addition after the process has completed, also, My main wash was to be bubble wash, am changing to stirring methods initially, finishing with bubble. I have accessed source of 99% potassium Hydroxide (KOH) so will use this. Bought a CAV Diesel filter (ebay of course) with viewable water content and drainage.

I feel reasonably ok with things up to now .Enormous amounts of reading thinking trying out different things, so, the time draws near. I only have to get my 200 Lts of Methanol pickup to go-go-go!

However folks, Some advice, suggestions would be most welcome, especially if someone would like to respond to some questions I have. My batches are to be 100Ltrs,( Am awaiting the chem: company to empty 2 x 200Lt carboys, translucent, so will be able to see what is happening.)

1. Joe, I realize you are using KOH. I feel ok with the stock solution mixing and the process similar to Sodium Hydroxide but I see different figures to add titration findings --- the additional dose for new Oil? Is it 3 or 5 gms any other relevant stuff you feel I need to know?

2. With washing ,I receive the message load and clear GENTLE!! I will make a spindle with 2 paint type stirrers, at aprox what revs would one use with a standard paint stirrer?.

3. Does anyone know if I have a problem, a) I am using brass taps on the cap of the Methoxide Carboy, they have a short piece of 3/8" copper tube to connect the transfer tube, and a similar setup at the induction end into the circulating process. Is this copper likely to be a problem?. b). I also have a question about Aluminum, My 2nd vehicle is a Diesel Troupy HJ45. I have a long range fuel tank of 150Ltrs made specifically for the vehicle, made from Aluminum, very substantial construction. It is fitted as pop top camper and although a 1980 Model it has only done 287000 Klms It was fitted out for the Victorian Safety Council. Is there likely to be a problem with Aluminum and Biodiesel? Well folks I would appreciate any feedback, critique or whatever. Many thanks!

Rgds

4 February 2006

I have a Land Cruiser HJ 45 circa 1980 with the 3.75 Lt h series diesel.

Less than 305,000klms on it since new. Mech A! I hope I can get away without much problem. I have an Aluminium 150 Litre Long range tank, not sure if this is good or not.Did you use KOH as a decision or availability. I find Lye quite easy to source but not sure the type of supplier for KOH. Is it much different to using Lye.

I find it encouraging to hear people like yourself who pop up with your operation as I find it very encouraging. I am close to start up next 2 weeks or so. I have a feeling that a steady careful process is the way to go but find the high appetite for more info perhaps a problem of over kill??? Be interested in any comments you may be able to offer. Thanks for the posting , very helpful

Rgds

Dillyman

19 January 2006 7:22 PM